Francesca De Valence
Francesca De Valence is an Australian artist, award-winning songwriter, speaker, and founder & CEO of I Heart Songwriting Club. She has been acknowledged by the Los Angeles Music Awards with an International Songwriter of the Year Award and also holds an Australian Songwriting Award. Francesca has supported artists including Jimmy Webb, Belinda Carlisle and The Manhattan Transfer and her music can be heard on ABC radio around Australia.
Francesca writes a monthly column for Songwriting Magazine UK, has a fortnightly ABC Radio songwriting segment and facilitates songwriting workshops nationally and internationally for PROs including APRA AMCOS & IMRO. When she's not on the road running workshops, making music and speaking, Francesca can be found in her hometown of Brisbane or her creative hub in Paris - eating baguettes and writing songs in French language.
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Transcript
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:09):
Have you on the Scrunch Creator Economy Show. Thank you so much for being here.
Francesca De Valence (00:14):
Thank you, Danielle, for the invitation. I'm delighted to be here.
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:18):
I know. And now we have known each other maybe a couple of years now through another program. But I am just excited to share your backstory with the Scrunch community because it's so interesting. So maybe this, that's the best place to start. So you are a creator, you have a thriving business. But maybe even, let's start with what happened before then. How did you get into it? How did you actually get here?
Francesca De Valence (00:46):
Yes, thank you for asking. So I'm the founder of iHeart Songwriting Club, which is an online songwriting club and mentorship space. We run courses and programs for songwriters and artists to live their dreams essentially. And Howard began is, you know, I think just such a, a typical founder story really is that I really struggle to write songs like big Time Struggle. I had major self-doubt, mental health issues. I would struggle to even write four songs a year. And now for a songwriter who wants a career as a songwriter, you can't write four songs a year. You've gotta write hundreds of songs a year, essentially. Wow. And I really struggled cuz there was no sort of spaces to develop those skills. Yeah. There was a real gap in, in, unless you're a published songwriter already, you know being guided on your journey and, and that opportunity is a, a bit of a luck and b skill and see who, you know. Yeah. that wasn't the world that I was in, and I'm still not in that world. So where could I go to develop those skills? And I'd come from being a trained musician studying music at university post undergrad postgrad teaching music, even playing Oh, wow. All around the world. So I was a very skilled musician. You know, I, I played, I sung backing vocals for, you know, people like Keith Urban and Michael Buble. I did not
Danielle (Scrunch) (02:15):
Know that about you. Oh
Francesca De Valence (02:16):
My God,
Danielle (Scrunch) (02:18):
There's
Francesca De Valence (02:19):
So many stories. I was a pro musician are earning money, being a mu being a musician. Yeah. But because I was so polished on the outside, people saw these great shows at the entertainment center or, you know mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from the convention center or wherever that was on behind the scenes was a major struggle for me creatively. Yeah. And created, you know, and, and I don't know if there are some things that align with other creative pursuits, but when I learned being a music, when I, when I learned music, I learned theory. I learned how to play notes on a page. I learned how to maybe even expressively play those notes, but I never learnt how to, to create.
Danielle (Scrunch) (03:00):
Wow. Yep.
Francesca De Valence (03:01):
And, and to create is actually quite opposite to, in some ways, not all the ways, but in some ways to following the rules of theory. And it's very opposite to reading the notes on the page. In fact, there are no notes. You make them up, you
Danielle (Scrunch) (03:13):
Know? Yeah. Yeah.
Francesca De Valence (03:14):
And, and that was where I was at in my, you know, in my thirties. Like, this is not the path I wanna be walking. So how can I get on board with that? Is that I needed a space to develop those skills. So I just brought, I, I just basically like the songwriters around me, I was like, are you guys struggling with this too? And there was one particular story with a student of mine who was really beating herself up in not dissimilar ways to myself around her creative process. And I just said, look, I'm done with struggling. I'm done with it. I'm, I'm like, I'm no longer gonna struggle <laugh>, let, like someone should be fun.
Danielle (Scrunch) (03:49):
Totally. What seems creative. So you would think it would be fun, but I understand the struggle.
Francesca De Valence (03:55):
So we are gonna make this fun and we're gonna make, we're gonna do this frequently. We're not gonna get our bees and a bonnet over. Can I even say that? I can say and say, if I want, say whatever you like,
Danielle (Scrunch) (04:05):
<Laugh>
Francesca De Valence (04:06):
<Laugh> you know, we, we we're just gonna do this. And so that began the process of writing a song a week and in an hour, because if we didn't have a time limit around that, then we would spend all week trying to perfect a song. And that was not the point of this. Yeah. The point is like, let's just write a song a week. And after 10 weeks, I'd written 10 songs. That's more than I'd written in the last couple of years.
Danielle (Scrunch) (04:26):
Yeah. Wow.
Francesca De Valence (04:27):
And then that was the beginning of what became a little email songwriting club, which became a business two years later, which is now about to turn eight years old. And wow. Over at 1200 members from 23 countries around the world, we've written 25,000 songs, and I have written 412 songs in 412 weeks.
Danielle (Scrunch) (04:48):
Holy crap. That's unreal's
Francesca De Valence (04:50):
A different person because
Danielle (Scrunch) (04:51):
You're a different person, <laugh>.
Francesca De Valence (04:53):
Totally, totally.
Danielle (Scrunch) (04:55):
Oh my God, that is incredible. And I love, I mean, I wanna go back to something that you just said around we don't get taught to create, because I feel like that is a struggle, not just for songwriters. I feel like as human beings, we go to school and we learn how to follow a set of rules. I remember my own journey. I, I didn't know you could start a business <laugh>. I went to school and I got a full-time job, and my parents had the same jobs for their whole lives. And I thought that's what you did. And I thought you saved for a house. And I thought that was the path. And it wasn't until I read a book where it was like this online business stuff, and I was like, oh my God, you're telling me you can just invent stuff. You can just create the life that you want. So I absolutely love that you have built a business around teaching people how to create and how to foster that in people. Because I feel like that is a life skill that's transferrable across every industry.
Francesca De Valence (05:52):
You're right. It is transferrable. Once you understand, you know, how to, you know, know, get clear on that vision for yourself, and then what are some, you know, reasonable goals that you can set out to achieve within a l a a short frame of time along the path to achieving the biggest goal that you want or, or bigger goals that you want. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, then it's just a matter of unfolding those next steps. And anything is really achievable if you have a plan to achieve that. And I, and I, I wanna say structure, but then also learning the skills of commitment and discipline and not sort of thinking their negative skills. In fact, there's just such amazing traits that just take you so much higher. Yeah, absolutely. So how did you foster those traits in yourself, <laugh>? Well, I have a, I have a satin in my first house. Firstly, <laugh>. Dammit. You've got the advantage. <Laugh>.
(06:43):
Well, we'll, well, I mean that, I know I have a, a love of astrology, but firstly like, you know, satin on my descendant means either there's, and there's gonna be some, you know, fears or like, what's the word? Like, decreasing around self, but it also could be structure and commitment and wisdom that you bring to Yeah. How people see you. So I think early in my twenties, people saw my fear. They saw me feeling less than Yeah. You know, or, or actually having quite a strict rules imposed on me. Mm. But switch that around and it's like, actually I understand structure and commitment, and I, and I bring the wisdom of my learning to everything that I do. But besides astrological support <laugh>, how do you, how do you foster that? Well, I mean, I, I mentor quite a lot of artists and a lot of people really struggle with next steps.
(07:39):
Yeah. so I would say it is important to have a, a very clear picture, whether that's a visual picture or written down, but some sort of, where, where do you wanna go? Where do you see it doing? And how does it feel when you are doing that? You know, what's the dream and how can you get specific about where you wanna be doing that, and what does it feel like when you're doing those things? And, and then if you can't, or if you don't know how to do this yourself, but sort of come back to a place of, well, what could I achieve in the next six months, in the next 12 months? And then what are some things, so commitment really just looks like continuing to walk the path that will get you there. So what can you do on a daily or every other day, or even just once a week?
(08:25):
I mean, that's what I did for many years before I took my songwriting to the next level. But what can you do once a week for an hour? Yeah. Now I get that not everybody is firstly, not everyone is like anyone else. But also I also get, not everyone is like me. I'm, I'm a bit next level commitment. Right. I'm, I'm quite next level. And I won't compromise on that now that I know how good I feel from doing this. Mm-Hmm. I won't compromise it on, on how, you know, my, what I'm getting out of this beyond feeling like career outcomes too. It's just so tremendous that can I, for me to compromise on one hour a week, there is a big problem, you know? Yes. So, I think a lot of people do get distracted by life, and they let external points outside of themselves, like they are magnetized to those things.
(09:15):
Yes. I've, I've learnt to not be magnetized to anything outside of myself and what I feel aligns with me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that's taken a lot of work to do that too. And I speak about this, I have a podcast called The Magic of Songwriting, and whether you song that or not, <laugh>, whether you're a songwriter or not, it's really great for creatives. And I talk about so my episode that comes out tomorrow is called How to Not Let Life Get In the Way Of You Living Your Dreams, how To Not Let Life, because Everyone Oh my God, that's so good clarity around that. Yeah. Unless you have clarity around that your cat getting sick, your dad, I, I look, I I talk about my dad dying and me writing songs all through that, and like, how easy that would've been to have stopped writing in that time.
(10:01):
Yeah. If I stopped writing in the 11 months, maybe I would've never continued again. But not only did I continue writing, but I continued to reconnect with the expression that that creative space provides with me, provides me with. And what I did within that space is I processed, I got out the feelings within me that were in me. And as a result of that, I feel like that whole experience of my dad dying was so nourishing. Mm. Wow. I mean, how many people can say that and experience with, with Got Goosebumps parents dying could be nourishing. Yeah. It was, and nourishing. And I just felt this deep sense of connection and love, like I was actually being of purpose in a different way in that space. And I shared with him my songs. And and prior to that, I hadn't seen my dad for nine years because it'd been a strange, so it's not like we were even, you know, it's, it's, it's not like I saw him every day.
(10:57):
It's like, okay, now here you are back in my life and you are dying. So how do I want to be in this? How do, who do I wanna be here? Mm-Hmm. And I think every day we have an opportunity to recommit to what really matters to us. And I think those big life changes when, you know, a parent is dying or something like that. It's, it's harder. Like it's, of course my priority is there, but why can't the priority be you and that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, like it's not a you or that. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Like, so, so coming back to the original question, how do you foster those traits? What can you do in a small capacity every week that will get you along the way? And I, I mean, like, don't compromise on it. Like turn up str, turn up crying, turn up yelling at the thing, but just turn up. Yeah. Eventually the, the access to turning up to that space with will be with more ease, and at some point it will be with Joy.
Danielle (Scrunch) (11:56):
Oh, I love that so much. And the big thing I'm hearing as well is intention. You know, I love that you said, you know, every day is an opportunity to reconnect with what's important to you or where you're going. And, you know, I feel that about life sometimes is it just moves so quickly and you are all right, the cat gets sick, or you moving house, or you know, there's kids yelling or there's something, something, something something. It's so easy to just let life unfold and Yes. And play with you. Absolutely. And if you are not intentional about, you know, and you're right, it doesn't have to be every minute of every day if it's an hour a week, but you're right. If you can't give yourself an hour a week to potentially achieve your dreams, then maybe they're not that important. Or maybe you need to re reflect on priorities,
Francesca De Valence (12:51):
<Laugh>. Well, here, here's even something harsher, they just actually won't be achieved.
Danielle (Scrunch) (12:56):
Yeah. Yep. You're right.
Francesca De Valence (12:58):
If, if you can't give at least one hour a week to achieve your dreams, you will never achieve your dreams.
Danielle (Scrunch) (13:03):
Yes.
Francesca De Valence (13:04):
Because at some point when the, when it goes from tantrum to ease and joy to show up to that space, yeah. At some point you're gonna wanna do more of that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I tantrum to show up to my songwriting for years, for one hour a week I tantrum to that. I was like, don't wanna do it. I'm gonna put it off to the last minute <laugh> and do that anymore. I'm okay with just showing up and just writing my song. And now it's like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited and I'm gonna write it again, and I'm gonna spend more hours writing songs, and now who else do I wanna write with? Yeah. Like, it brings so much joy because I am seeing the results. Yeah. And I'm feeling the results of that.
Danielle (Scrunch) (13:40):
Yeah. That's so awesome. I love, you know, that you don't have to show up perfectly, because I think that that again, is something that we block for ourselves. Like, ah, I'm not in the mood, you know, I'll do it when I feel better. I'll do it when I have more time. I'll do it when I, but you're right. Just show up as is. And
Francesca De Valence (13:57):
Consistency is far more beneficial than perfection.
Danielle (Scrunch) (14:01):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I, I think that that in itself is a good life model as well. Not just for this, but for everything. You know, it's like perfect. Holds people back. I know in I do a little bit of sales coaching and if everyone's always just obsessed with my things, not ready yet, and I was like, your thing, we will never be ready <laugh> and you'll never feel ready, you know, but just showing up and that consistency, and you are always surprised at what your definition of perfect is versus the rest of the world. I feel like we're our own harshest critic sometimes
Francesca De Valence (14:39):
I think the you, you're spot on. I, I hear everything that you're saying, and I think the trap that people fall into is when, and we all know what, we all have these people in our world, whether they're people at the dog park or people at the shops or, or our cousins or at maybe even our parents. Yes. You don't wanna put that out until you're ready, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and, and people will confirm exactly what you want them to confirm. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I, I get that they're doing it because of all the right reasons. They wanna, they, they wouldn't wanna do that either. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but most people aren't living with an unlimited vision for themselves. Yes. Most people are living with a limited vision for themselves. So get yourself in communication and in collaboration and in community with people who have an unlimited vision of themselves and yourselves. And that probably say, Hey, you're never gonna be ready, but just take the next step. Just show up. Just do the thing, show up imperfectly, and show up again and again and again. And I bet after a year you're gonna feel really different about doing that.
Danielle (Scrunch) (15:40):
I love that. Yes. So tell me then, being a creative and that I guess method of making income is different to being a business owner, and you have walked both paths mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and you have done it very successfully. How, what, what had to change for you from thinking about yourself as a creator to thinking about yourself as a business owner?
Francesca De Valence (16:07):
I always worked for myself. So when I was a musician at 17 year old, 17 years old, playing at the old Sheraton in Brisbane, hotel invoicing, the Sheratan Hotel for two <laugh>. I always worked for myself. I was always a salt trader. Yeah. You know, even when, you know, I got paid for singing backing vocals for Bule, I invoiced somebody for that job. Right? Yeah. So I've always worked for myself in, in some way. I've always been a small business. And then transiting, transiting trans, trans transitioning. Transitioning. Thank you. That's, that's the word that happens. Transitioning to, there's a couple of transitions here. So I transitioned from doing other people's songs Yeah. To my, there was a value and a worth Mm. Growth that, or opportunity to learn more about myself that came up at that point, you know? Wow. So yeah, I could sing, you know, Billy Joel and Joni Mitchell covers mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, everyone loves, or, and or I can sing Francesca Dev Valance songs, which I'm not sure if anyone loves.
Danielle (Scrunch) (17:23):
I'm sure they do. <Laugh>
Francesca De Valence (17:24):
<Laugh>. Well, that's, that's where I was feeling at the time. Yes. Like, you know, that was the, the value as like, shifting from being a small business that could play other people's songs to a small business that now wanted to play my own songs. So there was something around that shift. And then like, even the industry will pay more for you to play covers than we'll to play your originals when you're starting out. So I went from getting, making, you know, about a hundred grand playing covers to making zero money playing original music, pretty much. Wow. Yeah. And that's why I started teaching as the, the day job that funded my ability to now, you know,
Danielle (Scrunch) (17:59):
Oh wow.
Francesca De Valence (18:00):
Bring my business as an original artist together so I could make albums now, you know, albums cost tens of thousands of dollars and then promotion of those things. So it became a different business at that point, and I was definitely more creative focused mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. and then coming into, so teaching funded my ability to do that because possibly the same with other creative industries. But unless you're in the top, you know, echelon of artists and songwriters, you are not making enough money to live day to day. Mm-Hmm.
Danielle (Scrunch) (18:34):
Yeah.
Francesca De Valence (18:34):
You're not, you're just not. Unless, and here's, here's the, the caveat, unless you're willing to be on the road for 200 days of the year touring mm-hmm. And I, I just felt a bit burnt out from that sort of thing. And, you know, I did many tours and I just spoke even one time, and I maybe made $5 another time. You know, when you look at all the flights, the car hire and the equipment higher, and the, you know, when you can't stay on someone's couch, you have to buy a motel room for the night, all those sorts of things. Like, there is a way to make money in that realm. Mm. Selling merchandise of course. And then coming to a place of, of having a business that was based around creativity. But it really is a business. Like I had someone club, it started as a club for two years, and at some point the list of people that wanted to join grew so big that if I didn't make it a business, if I didn't create a business model, that I could make a service available for people I would never be able to reach the a hundred people that were on my mail on, on my waiting list.
(19:36):
Yeah. So I, I got my head around how I could do that, you know, and I was like, again, it was like, I don't wanna charge a lot of people for it, and I still don't, the club is the same price as when we first put it out to people to buy six years ago, but we've got lots of, we've got lots of add-ons, so, you know, courses for beginners, we've got mentor programs for people who wanna take their song right into the next level and mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and one-on-one coaching and those sorts of things as well. So there is a, it is a business. Yeah. I, I'm not sure I've answered your question, but there was some really interesting, you know, sort of value propositions that changed along the way. Well,
Danielle (Scrunch) (20:10):
It feels like mindset shifts. It feels like you were kind of, yeah. Like things sort of, okay, now this is the value, or this is the direction I want, and it's a little bit different than it used to be. So that means I'm going to have to change the products and services that I offer, or or, you know, yeah. I've got so many people interested here. If I don't create a business model around this, well what am I doing? So that I like the mindset shifts and the awareness of where I'm at, and then what next step I need to take.
Francesca De Valence (20:41):
Everything was in response to something. So I I created the business of the club in response to the list. Yeah. I created the mentorship program in response to the emails that were being quite the emails that I was getting from songwriters. I created the course because beginners who joined the club were a bit out of their comfort zone. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, there was always something in response. So I created in response and and I've come with a soul trader musician business mindset to this, which is, you know, probably not where most business owners come. You know, they probably come with, I don't know, some business training <laugh>. No, no. We don't. We're all just winging it. We're all wing it. Yeah. So, I mean, I've gotten myself business coaches and I still have them because I mean, like, without that, I mean, it's much easier to wanna stay comfortable, right?
(21:38):
Oh, totally. Yeah. But nothing happens there. Yeah. And one of the, one of the things I'm playing with at the moment is like and, and this is the first time I'm saying this a aloud, like, I have always desired to be really, really wealthy. Like, I love that. I'm not ashamed of that. Like, I'm not ashamed of that. I just speak about it. I was like, you know, I wanna live on the water. I actually wanna live on the water. Like, I'd love it. Yeah. You know, I don't need multiple properties, but I'll take another one, you know, on the Mediterranean. That's fine. Yeah, absolutely. I won't say no, I don't need a, I'm not saying I had private jet material, but, you know, look, I'll take it. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna help myself back. But, and then there's the, the, the sort of guilt of like, where would that money come from?
(22:18):
Would it come from my songwriting that would pay me? And I'm like, oh my God, no. And then I shut it off because I'm gonna Yeah. Where that money would come from. Right. Of course. Of course. I could just, you know, write loads of hits and people could stream them. So they, there's, that's like that Right? <Laugh>. But but there's what I envision mm-hmm. And then where I, I almost like if there's an attachment to what that might mean mm-hmm. And very unhelpful. But what I'm getting on board with is like, I know I'm the person that I've proven it time and time again, is that you give me a resource, I'm gonna share it with my community. Yep. You give me, you give me wealth, I'm going to make so many amazing opportunities for people as a result of that. Mm. Yes. We can do albums.
(23:02):
You come into my studio, we're gonna record an album and no, it's not gonna cost you $40,000 as it always does, because it doesn't need to cause the inflated music industry costs, you know, there are other ways to do things. So it's getting on board with the an unlimited mindset Yes. And unlimited vision and not being attached to how that's gonna happen. But knowing that when I'm there and, and, and how I will share that with my community and the world, who's not gonna wanna be a part of that. Like I'm, I wanna be a part of that. People will wanna be a part of that. And I really, I, I dunno how we got here, but we're here. Well,
Danielle (Scrunch) (23:42):
And it, but it's interesting cuz it's, it's reminding me of somebody once said to me impact and making money don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can make a lot of money and be wealthy and actually do great things. In fact, you can do more great things if you have the means.
Francesca De Valence (24:01):
Dolly Parton. Dolly Parton, she buys books for school children. Yeah. And she's phenomenally wealthy. Yeah. Phenomenally wealthy. Does anyone like resent her for that? I mean, absolutely not. May, maybe some people do. Maybe,
Danielle (Scrunch) (24:17):
But
Francesca De Valence (24:18):
They're not in my realm or my world. I just think she's wealthy.
Danielle (Scrunch) (24:22):
Oh, absolutely. So, and that's, I wonder how many people are li I love you keep using the term unlimited mindset or unlimited vision for yourself. And I just love that because I feel like we put caps on ourselves and they're a result of many things likely, but you know, how you grew up or the friendship group or the in, and, you know, sometimes the unwillingness to say it aloud is that, oh, I don't want people to think that I just wanna make money or I don't want people to think I want this or like that. So, you know, I wanna make money. I wanna make money too.
Francesca De Valence (24:57):
<Laugh>,
Danielle (Scrunch) (24:58):
I'm in that
Francesca De Valence (24:59):
Pub. And also what this as you know, assumes you've had to do to, to make that yeah. All those sorts of things. Yeah. It's just incredibly unhelpful.
Danielle (Scrunch) (25:09):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think if more people get on board, and the thing is too that's interesting is there is no, like the pie is big enough for everyone. It's not, if you and I get wealthy, other people can't. There is unlimited supply. So why we, it's not
Francesca De Valence (25:27):
Even a pie because a pie has borders and edges and a whole them out. It's bigger than that.
Danielle (Scrunch) (25:33):
<Laugh>. Oh my god. I love it. I love it. <Laugh>. But it's true. It's like
Francesca De Valence (25:37):
Totally
Danielle (Scrunch) (25:38):
We rising doesn't mean somebody else isn't. We can all rise together. We can all have unlimited supply.
Francesca De Valence (25:45):
Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. I'm totally on board with that.
Danielle (Scrunch) (25:50):
I love it too. It's awesome. I think the more we talk about it though, that I feel like, yeah, they're real. So, it's so funny, I have to show you this. I have talk about money written on a piece of paper here. Cause I was literally on a call yesterday talking to people about how, or I was a podcast or something and I was like, we just don't talk about it enough. Everybody is just, yeah. Ta money's such a taboo subject for a lot of people that I think as a, you know, collective, whether it's business owners or creators or whatever, we just tend to think it in our minds and not share it with enough people. So I I love that you said that. That's so good.
Francesca De Valence (26:29):
So it's another resource that helps to go where we wanna go. Just like the amazing people in our world and just like the, the physical resources that we have mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it is a resource and it's necessary to have
Danielle (Scrunch) (26:44):
Absolutely.
Francesca De Valence (26:45):
It's totally desirable.
Danielle (Scrunch) (26:47):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well we live in a world where you have to have money. So <laugh> more of it's never a man thing. So tell me, for people who are just starting out, so people who are maybe have some kind of skill, have some kind of creator profile but are maybe struggling with the business element. So how do they create a business around a passion or a skillset? Do you have any tips for people who are just getting started in this space?
Francesca De Valence (27:20):
Yes, I do. In fact, over covid, I ran a, a mentoring program to help artists to build an online business for themselves using their innate gifts and talents. And yeah, it's been so beautiful to see those flourish. And, you know, creators making money from, you know, whether it's subscription businesses online or whether they're selling something in a different way. That's, yeah. So what I would, what I recommend is that you really get clear on the impact that you already make in the world. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, like, and, and you might need to ask people, what impact do I make in the world? You know, how do you see that? And then you can package that up.
Danielle (Scrunch) (28:03):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,
Francesca De Valence (28:04):
There is a way and oh my god, that cup
Danielle (Scrunch) (28:07):
<Laugh>, I know all my, oh, godly. Bring that into the chat. <Laugh>, my, my cups are dirty <laugh> cup in the house
Francesca De Valence (28:20):
Call. Yeah. I would say, you know, get, get clear on, oh. So actually I would even come back before that. Like what I do with all of the artists that I mentor and the songwriters that I mentor, the very first thing we do is we get really clear on what your values are and what you believe your purpose is in the world. That's for no one else to decide but you. Yeah. And there are definitely some beautiful exercises you can do around getting clear on those values and what your purpose is in the world. Because if you can make choices based on does this align with my values? Am I getting to fulfill my purpose by doing this? Or is this helping to fulfill my purpose? Mm-Hmm. Amazing. You're just gonna be constantly aligned and magnetized to those things cuz you've got clarity. And then the second part of that is to understand what impact you're already making through the work you're doing.
(29:05):
Are you helping people to be inspired? Are you helping them to connect with their emotions and their feelings? Do you help people to, to deal with grief? Do you help people to with, you know, parents with their children in some way? You know, I mean some songwriters who write children's songs and that helps the parents, you know? Wow. So some sorts of ways to get clear on what the impact you make can be by asking others around you. And I would do that pers as personally as possible so you can get as much data as possible on that opinions really. But you can still use it as data and then you can put together a business. You know, if, if that's what we're talking about here is taking your creativity to a business level is like how, what sort of service could I offer as a result and how could I package that up in a way that allows me to thrive as a business?
(29:59):
You know? And, and when you start out, I suppose you don't wanna have too many options Mm. For what people can buy. Like when I started out doing business coaching, I already had a club for $55 that people could buy. And it's such a low value offering that it was like, actually my coach was like, you've got all of this low hanging fruit, is what she called it. People emailing me all the time asking questions to get them all together on a Zoom call and start mentoring them. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant. Can I do that? Yeah. <laugh>, that's brilliant. And, and within and within six weeks I'd made more money than I'd made in the club.
Danielle (Scrunch) (30:38):
Oh my God, that's incredible.
Francesca De Valence (30:41):
Yeah. And I started paying myself a wage Yep. Because I Oh, right. So instead of, you know, a $55 for 10 week program, now I can charge, you know, hundreds of dollars a month each month.
Danielle (Scrunch) (30:55):
Mm.
Francesca De Valence (30:55):
Or to be able to personally service people in a different way. Yeah. Group, group service, you know? Yeah. and then, you know, there's, I have five spots for one-on-ones. That's it. Like I, I can't service more than that, but I can service, I can service this amount of this, this amount of this and this amount of this, you know? Yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (31:12):
Yeah. Exactly.
Francesca De Valence (31:14):
And then every time I had a conversation with somebody, if I felt that there was a, a really good offer and whether it's like, actually this is the best place for you, or actually this is the best place for you. No, this is the best place for you. And if I couldn't, then I would say, I, I can't help you right now, but maybe I would go to this person or do this thing. But that, that way every time I had a conversation I could offer them, you know, some sort of entry to one of the three programs I had, which I've got a lot more now, and basically can help every, any songwriter in any way <laugh>.
Danielle (Scrunch) (31:43):
But that's over time, like as
Francesca De Valence (31:45):
That's over time.
Danielle (Scrunch) (31:45):
Eight years you've been there for eight years. Yeah, exactly.
Francesca De Valence (31:48):
Yeah. So when, yeah, when you start out, it would be, I would probably just have one thing that would allow you, you know, if you could sell 10 of them or 12 of them, or maybe even, you know, under, under 30, which is quite doable Yes. That you could pay yourself. Yeah. And that's really important because then you're gonna see, feel the, the value of, is it you feel the value? No, you would feel the,
Danielle (Scrunch) (32:12):
Well, I like the feel, the what, being able to make money through a product actually feels like, cuz that I find that really interesting. Like the, I remem I remember the first time somebody paid for something that I just had an idea and, and it was like you know, a decade ago now, but I still remember that first sale and they paid me like $99 for something that now we'd charge $5,000 for. But I was like, you know, you wanna get that first person and prove to yourself that you'll do it. But when that happens like I think your mind kind of opens up and like, oh, okay, it's now possible. How do we grow this?
Francesca De Valence (32:54):
Yep, yep. Absolutely. And there are some really simple, and you would no doubt teach this or espouse this to your mentees. You know, ways to ensure that you meet your minimum numbers every month. Yep. Right. So that your business continues to take over. And I've definitely fallen into the, oh, I'm not doing that stuff. Oh, that's why my business is not growing <laugh>. Yeah. And you gotta be really honest with yourself, you know? And so now I just make 20 minutes every Monday and I do that work.
Danielle (Scrunch) (33:24):
Yep.
Francesca De Valence (33:25):
Because if I do that work, my business grows.
Danielle (Scrunch) (33:28):
Yes. And I love I love that you just said, you know, maybe there's things we don't really wanna do. But if we schedule them in, get 'em done, they're done.
Francesca De Valence (33:37):
Yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (33:38):
I do that like with like just business reporting, you know, it's so important to look at, okay, what is the health of everything? What are all my numbers? What's working, what's not working? But it's kind of a non knowing admin job. So I have it in my calendar and that's a meeting that I have with myself. I sit down, I do it all, and I'm always surprised. Oh, cool, okay. I kind of thought things were not as great as that. But you know, you always, I think, downplay things in your head, but then you sit down, do the work, I'm like, oh cool, things are good. This is working really well. I'm gonna do more of that. But you know, sometimes scheduling time to do those things and having that commitment to yourself is really important.
Francesca De Valence (34:14):
Yes. I, it it always moves forward when you show up to those things. It always does. And if you just follow, like, and I mean business owners, creatives, all people that have to do some sort of reach out cuz creatives are always doing reaching out. Like whether it's like media wanna let you know about a new album that I've put out or, you know, I've got tickets for my show available. But same with business. It's sales. It's sales at the end of the day. Yeah. when you show up, I wanna say when you show up unemotionally, you may be emotional about it, but if you do it eventually you start to see that I didn't need to get emotional about it, I could've just done it without the emotion that would've been far less fatiguing and Mm. Effort efforting and here I am getting the results. And that only really comes from doing it. And honestly, like having, having somebody to support you through that is just so good for accountability. I also feel like, so when I did my very first business coaching, I spent $30,000 in the first year. Wow. And I was terrified that if I didn't make that money back, I would, that would, that would be it. So I, I used that as a firecracker to make sure that I did, to make that I did mm-hmm.
(35:26):
<Affirmative>. I see. I think that's a lot of money, but maybe that's the sort of scare tactic I needed to give myself. Right.
Danielle (Scrunch) (35:34):
It's true though. Sometimes we need that kinda, you know Yeah. Scare tactic or whatever it is that kick out on whether it's an accountability person that's just that, oh my God, if I don't do it, I've gotta tell that person that I bloody didn't do it again. Or if it's, oh my God, I've paid money that I cannot afford to lose, so I'm going to make this happen. Like, depending on what it is for you, having that motivator in place I think is a really good idea.
Francesca De Valence (36:02):
And at some point that motivation can become more inspiration. Like, I get it. Yes. I don't need it from an external point of view, but I mean, starting like I needed that guidance. Now my, now my mentors are around skill development mm-hmm. <Affirmative> less so about accountability because I already have those checks and balances in place myself. Yeah. That can change. And I, I know I get excited about having a meeting with my mentors. It's like, it's more about business strategy and development. It's like, woo, this is like still uncomfortable, but, you know, I, it's just a different, I've moved, moved past the point of how to make money and how to make money now. How can they grow and scale that to a place that I hadn't considered and where am I holding myself back? And often it's just even having in the conversation that I realize my own limitations and I'm like, yeah, now that I see it, thank you for allowing me to see that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I'm gonna go and take the lid off that.
Danielle (Scrunch) (36:52):
Yeah. And, and I love that too. The learning never stops, you know, it's just, it's different at the start. You're kind of going, okay, how do I make money? How do I figure out online business? How do I figure out the tools and the structures? And then it's like, oh, cool, nailed that. All right. How do I, you know, make sure everything I do is providing bigger and better value for the people that are paying me money. And then you're right, okay, how do I level up in business? It's just a constant growth and evolution.
Francesca De Valence (37:19):
Yeah. How do you recommend creatives put business strategy together?
Danielle (Scrunch) (37:25):
I agree with you to get a mentor. I think there is so much information and roadmaps out there that you don't need to struggle anymore. I think that you, I think it's really powerful when people have a passion or a skill and when they can create a business around it and provide value to other people, the businesses are always so interesting and, and create a lot of value. And I think the business side is kind of done. There's so many programs, videos resources that you can go to to find out how to build a website, how to charge people money, how to do your invoicing. And there's so many tools now for creators that help them with you know, managing their finances or how to sell or whatever it might be. I just think that if you find a community that has the information that you feel you are lacking, don't reinvent the reel and don't struggle. Just tap into that community, ask questions, read the resources, follow the videos, you know, and dedicate that time to that growth.
Francesca De Valence (38:30):
And can I ask you another question,
Danielle (Scrunch) (38:32):
Please?
Francesca De Valence (38:33):
No, I've become the interviewer.
Danielle (Scrunch) (38:34):
That's fine. Fine. <laugh>, I'll talk all day if you let me <laugh>.
Francesca De Valence (38:39):
What how, how would creatives know if their business idea would work?
Danielle (Scrunch) (38:47):
I love this question so much because I have made this mistake a lot of times in creating something and building something without asking anybody for money first <laugh>. And now I never do that. I now go, I have this, what I think is a brilliant idea, what I think is solving a real problem, what I think people are paying money for. But I won't touch it unless somebody commits to buy it or will actually buy it from me. So I always say to creatives or even anyone with a business idea, take an hour to build a free landing page, use a Squarespace or whatever. You can literally drag and drop and do it yourself in an hour and go and try and sell it to somebody. So if you can find a potential customer and get them to pay some money, then that validates your idea. Because it does go back to the money conversation. You can do all of these amazing things, but if no one's gonna pay you money, you don't have a business <laugh>, you know, you do, you do need to pay yourself at some point. Otherwise you are a, a guess at charity. And if that's what you wanna do, that's cool, but if you want a business, you do have to make money. So my advice to anyone is go and try and sell it first and then scramble to make it amazing. <Laugh>
Francesca De Valence (40:02):
Love that. I love that. Yeah. Great.
Danielle (Scrunch) (40:06):
So good. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. You are absolutely incredible. And I I am like, I have to go away now and do all these things that I've just been inspired to do, so I know if I'm feeling like that everybody else will as well. So I'm so grateful for your time and insights.
Francesca De Valence (40:27):
Thank you Dani, so much for having me. And thank you for all your support over the last few years too. It's a real delight to know you.
