Jordan Hughes
Jordan Hughes is the Creator of High-Proof Preacher. Jordan Hughes is a full-time creative in the food & beverage industry, based out of Portland, OR. He works as a photographer, recipe developer and social media consultant for various brands, bars and restaurant groups.
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Transcript
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:09):
Jordan, thank you so much for joining us here on the Scrunch Creator Economy Show. I am so honored to have you. How are you? Welcome.
Jordan Hughes (00:20):
Oh, good. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, like I don't really do a whole lot of podcasts, so this'll, this'll be super fun.
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:27):
I'm so excited. Well, look, why don't we start out by giving everybody a little bit of context. So your current business is high proof teacher, but let's park that for two seconds and tell everyone your story. So how did you get here? Did you have a career, other businesses? What's the backstory?
Jordan Hughes (00:48):
Yeah, I mean, backstory is I mean, I guess like a lot of creators now where yeah, where it's like kind of always had this creative bent this kind of interest in photography. And for me, you know, my focus is very much cocktails and spirits and all of that. So didn't have a career in, in either thing, really. It's like both things were just, you know, fun hobby for me. So it was a sort of thing where it was like just looking for a, a creative outlet to yeah, just a way to, to take the things that I did enjoy and kind of see if, you know, they resonated with people. So I just was really into, you know, making cocktails for myself, for friends. I have a lot of bartender friends, so I kind of just like learned a lot from them.
(01:41):
Ooh. And just started coming up with my own drinks and then taking pictures was just something also, you know, that I really enjoyed too. So it was just kind of came together easily and was able to start a blog and an Instagram count. And it kind of just snowballed from there, you know, of just like as I started sharing more of my work you know, as you share your work, you also end up getting better at it <laugh>, you know, which is nice. So yes, <laugh> yeah, started working with like, some local companies. Like there's a few like distilleries in Portland, Oregon where I'm based. Started working with kind of small businesses like that. And then yeah, just kind of as my account grew and my blog grew, started connecting with some bigger brands. And eventually, like, you know, for a while there I was, I was kind of trying to do like a few different creative things and, you know, some design work and all of that, but as I went on, I was like, well, the cocktail photography thing is niches that sounds, was what I was really good at.
(02:40):
And that's kind of what people were noticing me for. And ultimately I was, I was able to be like, yeah, this, this is what I'm focusing on. And that kind of just became my, my full-time thing. So it, it definitely didn't happen overnight, that's for sure. But it was, it was kind of, that's the, the long and short of it, I guess, <laugh>.
Danielle (Scrunch) (02:59):
So how long have you been at it then?
Jordan Hughes (03:02):
Yeah, I, I started the like blog and social media account in 2017. So it's been like about five years now. Yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (03:13):
Awesome. It's always good to know because I feel like, you know, with the invention of the word viral, people kind of hope that they just start an account tomorrow. They'll be famous. Yeah,
Jordan Hughes (03:25):
Totally. <Laugh>
Danielle (Scrunch) (03:27):
<Laugh>. It really doesn't work like that. Right. So so you kind of mentioned a few things there in terms of growing an audience, you know, crafting your skills, and then starting to work with smaller brands and bigger brands. What's kind of the scope of how you make money today? Like you I know that you off, you do consulting work as well on social media, not just the sponsored post element. Like what is mm-hmm. <Affirmative> your business kind of look like?
Jordan Hughes (03:55):
Yeah, so I mean, even like starting out well, honestly, starting out, like I wasn't even necessarily trying to be like an influencer. Like of course I was like, this would be really cool if this works out. But I always kind of introduced myself as like, I am a, a photographer. Like that's my, yeah. Skill. And then it was kinda like, then I'm a photographer who makes cocktail, you know, so it's kind of like <laugh>, I kept like adding levels to it, you know, because mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. so that's where it's tricky now where I feel like, especially with a lot of creators, like I almost have to be like this multifaceted multifaceted, creative, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah, so now it's like I'm pretty well established as an influencer and, you know, get sponsor posts and all of that. But I also work with a lot of clients just as a commercial photographer.
(04:49):
So that often overlaps with influencer stuff. Like sometimes clients find me through Instagram, like they'll hire me as an influencer, and then I'll kind of be like, Hey, by the way, like, I actually am just a professional photographer, like, you want, if you wanna book me for like a bigger commercial project, let's talk sort of thing. So I've been able to kind of get some bigger clients that way. And then similarly, it will go the other way too, where I'll work for some clients again, just as a photographer, and then they end up finding me on social media and they're like, oh, wait, could we do some other promotional stuff with you <laugh>? Or can you help us with our social? So there's a few very small few clients because it's, it's a lot of work. But I do some kind of social media management for a few clients. Also do, like, this year I launched an e-course Oh, cool. Which is, yeah, so that's called Cocktail Camera Pro, that's all like, again, very focused on my, my very focused niche, but it's like teaching people how to be beverage photographers and how to capture products and you know, that sort of thing. So, okay.
Danielle (Scrunch) (05:55):
Which I feel is like, you know, know you say it's niche, but I think of like every bartender I know who's like Right. Kind of becoming a creator and getting no one for their work and entering competition. So I actually feel like they'd be quite an audience for that.
Jordan Hughes (06:09):
Totally. Yeah. It's been surprising how, even just like the food blogger world mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, a lot of my students are food bloggers. I've kind of, oh, of course it's only been going for like six months. So I'm kind of still figuring out like, who's actually buying this, who's interested in this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And a lot of it is food bloggers where like the food blog world is, you know, pretty saturated. So a lot of them are like wanting to figure out how to take pictures of cocktails and wine and beer, and they're like, nice. It's, it fits in that, but it's also like you know, it's a, it's a different skill cause it's like you're shooting something that's often transparent or that's reflective, you know, shooting glassware is a little different than shooting, you know, cake or whatever, you know, it's just like a Yeah. A little bit of a different thing. So so that's been cool to see like there's just been a lot of kind of food photographers or food bloggers who are jumping in there as well, so.
Danielle (Scrunch) (07:02):
Yeah. Well, I love that too, because I think you're right in terms of saturation of different industries. So creators being able to, I guess, craft their skills and stand out in their industry is gonna become super important. Yeah.
Jordan Hughes (07:18):
Right. Totally.
Danielle (Scrunch) (07:19):
That's awesome. So how did you go about, cause I feel like there's kind of two sides. So first is like, you know, you have this passion, you have this skillset set, and you're really refining that, and then you've built an audience, and then as you've gone, you've kind of stacked on the business services. So if we kind of go back to how you built an audience, was there anything in particular that you did to build that audience? Or did it kind of happen more organically? How did that work?
Jordan Hughes (07:49):
Yeah, I mean for me, like I was, I was pretty focused on like the, the cocktail liquor world. It's like, as, as many big brands there are, and it's like pretty big, but also as like an industry mm-hmm. <Affirmative> there, it's like fairly small, which sounds weird to say, but like there's you know, like any industry there, there's kind of like these, these circles that you can get in where Mm. In the cocktail world, I, as I was kind of getting to know that, and like I said, I was working with distilleries and then some bars and stuff locally and would kind of get an idea from them of like you know, what events I should go to or who I should meet sort of thing. So from pretty early on I was pretty intentional on like like I don't want to just be, you know, just on a phone, on a screen.
(08:47):
Like I actually want to, you know, part of what makes the cocktail world and that industry so beautiful is like, there's, there's so many cool people doing things around the country and around the world, so mm-hmm. <Affirmative> pretty early on I went to this event called Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans. Cool <laugh>, but you know, it's like a big, you know, it's kind of a big party for a week, but it's, it's very much focused on education for bartenders and bar owners and enthusiasts like me. So they do a lot of seminars in the mornings and then the evenings there was like brand activations and, you know, big events and stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So so I ended up like going to one of those kind of the, the first or second year I was kind of doing this and just met like a ton of bartenders and authors and PR people, just like all these people who kind of interact with the kind of cocktail and and liquor world.
(09:36):
And that was pretty big for me just cuz it was like, I was like, oh, I can actually like get to know specific people from all over the country, some people from all over the world. And you know, a lot of those are people on the brand side, some are on the PR side, you know, so those are kind of the people that would be more likely to be hiring a photographer or a social media person, you know? Yes. So, but also just getting to know bartenders who are also like, they're kind of just the industry influencers of the cocktail world. Yeah. They're the people selling the stuff and they're people that are actually interacting with consumers. So even just getting to know certain bartenders was huge cuz they were like, oh, let me introduce you to this guy. He owns this brand. And that's so cool. So kinda from there, yeah. So kind of from there it was like, just got to know a lot of different people and then they kind of connect me with other events. So really is kind of the power of, of in-person networking and that very much translated to the digital world as well.
Danielle (Scrunch) (10:33):
I think that's so cool because all you hear about online is like the algorithm and pushing out more content <laugh>. Yeah. And so I kind of love that you've kind of, you know, gone the other way and been super targeted about meeting the right people in your industry through in-person events. And I mean, obviously we had a little hiatus on in-person events, but that's coming back now, right? Like every Yeah. And I think everyone's so keen to get out there and, and meet people in person and I love that it's like, well an industry event allows you to be super targeted about that. So I feel like on social media sometimes it's a bit of a blast and you're getting a whole bunch of random people, some who just love your pictures, but if you're actually in a specific event for your industry, that gives you so much more opportunity.
Jordan Hughes (11:25):
Totally. Yeah. I was actually, I just got to go back to that Tales of the Cocktail event last week. So it was the first time they Oh, cool. They did it since the pandemic. So it had been, you know, two years, two or three years. Mm-Hmm. and it was just, and it's always fun, but it was just like even more just beautiful and like, just cuz people were like just so happy to be there and to be around people again. Mm-Hmm. yeah, especially just and got to connect with a lot of people who I only know online or met online in the last few years. So it was really cool to just be like yeah, kind of like what you're saying of like, oh, like, you know, you're just used to staring at a screen or talking about, okay, how do I, how do I beat the algorithm today? You know? It was so cool to be like, wait, there's actually people behind these screens and these people liking and commenting and interacting are real people and Yeah. You know, the stuff I put out actually does, you know, impact people and yeah. It was just like, so just so cool to like have that in-person interaction again. For sure.
Danielle (Scrunch) (12:32):
<Laugh>. Yeah. No, I love that. And I yeah, I feel like, you know, as much as we are in this digital social world, you do, you are spot on. You have to remember there is another human being at the, at behind that email address or behind Right. The Instagram account or behind the something. It's really interesting. I, I spoke to someone who was in the video space yesterday and, you know, so much of the things that I'm hearing now is just, you've gotta do reels, you've gotta do reels, you've gotta do reels. And he was like, well, who are you actually creating content for? You know, actually think about the person behind the content. So I love that you are kind of one step further. It's like, yeah, well if you actually make these relationships in person, that is gonna translate into the growth of your business.
Jordan Hughes (13:18):
Right?
Danielle (Scrunch) (13:19):
That's so cool. Totally. So then how do you go from photographer content creator, building followers, meeting people in person to a business owner? Because I feel like there might be some skills that you've had to learn along the way and challenges <laugh>, how have you yeah. Navigated business world.
Jordan Hughes (13:39):
Yeah. yeah, I was definitely learners you go fake it till you make it sort of, sort of thing. Yeah. And like I feel like part of it is like for me and I feel like it's, it's something I try to infuse in my content too, where like, like a lot of my content is, is more kind of educationally focused and like, I, I try to always like and even like with my e-course, you know, like telling people just the importance of just always being curious, you know? So for me, that's just something where even in how I got into this, it was like, I am not a bartender, I'm not a photographer when I started this stuff, you know, and it's like, I just kind of became those things because I was like, I wanna learn about this stuff Yeah.
(14:26):
And whatever I need to do to learn how to do it, you know? So that, that's been the same thing on the business side too, of like, once I kind of got into this you know, it's like, oh, I'm kind of a photographer now, I should really learn how to do this well. And it's like, oh shoot, like I'm actually doing this as a business. I should figure out how to do this. Like, business stuff. Well, yeah, <laugh>. So, so that often like for me means, you know, looking up whatever I can find online, but it's also usually kinda looking towards people who are maybe a little ahead of me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> or people who either are kind of in the same circle or, or maybe just like a few steps removed. You know, the, the cocktail influencer circle isn't very big, so sometimes it was like, well, who's, who's doing food photography?
(15:14):
Can I talk with them? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So a lot of times especially early on, like, I ended up kind of reaching out to a few different people online. One was a guy named Elliot from Apartment Bartender. Another, there was Joanie from the Bite Shot. She does a lot of kind of food education food photo stuff on YouTube and stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and just like, hey, like, you know, trying to be respectful of their time, but also like, I'm kind of new at this and I'm like, I feel like I'm onto something, but I just wanna figure out like how to do this well. And like part of the business side too is like, if I'm coming into this kind of new to me circle, it's like I, I don't want to be like you know, the guy who's like underpricing my services and screwing everyone else over.
(16:00):
And like Totally. Yeah. yeah. So there's like a lot of considerations in that of like, I wanna know how to do my own books and prep for taxes and all that, but also like, I don't wanna be in a lane now and pissing off everyone else who's like, been doing that, you know, so. Yeah. so that, that's been a big part of it, of like seeing like, okay, now that I'm in this room, who else is in this room? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> who's doing it well and who might be willing to talk with me and help me out. And it's surprisingly been very, I feel like nearly everyone I've reached out to has just been so like, yeah. Like, thank you for asking. Like of course, I'll, I'll kind of tell you, you know, at least how, how it's worked for them sort of thing, so mm-hmm. <Affirmative>
(16:42):
yeah, it's really kind of been learning from others and, and kind of looking ahead and saying like, who, who would I like to be? Like you know, like for this guy Elliott partner bartender, it was like, he was someone where I was like, I would, I would like to be at his level at some point, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So he was like, I'm gonna hit him up and see if he's down to, to chat sometime. So, and now he's like one of my best friends and we, we talk all the time. It's great. It's so cool. Yeah. So that's where it's like, you know, it's when I tell kind of new creators too, where it's like, I feel like sometimes when you see like a big follower account on, on someone you look up to or whatever mm-hmm. It's kind of intimidating to like message em or ask 'em questions, but it's like, it's like, what, what do you have to lose? You know? Mm. They might not respond like, that's the worst or that's the worst thing that can happen. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah. Seriously. So that's just like, I'm just always a, a fan of like, just always be asking questions and yeah. Just be trying to learn whatever you can because nobody, nobody likes, you know, someone just coming in and pretending like they know how everything works when they don't. So <laugh>. Yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (17:48):
And it's so cool because I feel like the creator industry is one of those industries where people are kind of making things up a little bit as they go along. There's not like Right. Regulation, there's not, this is how much you charge. And Yeah. And I do see
Jordan Hughes (18:05):
The Wild West, you know, totally
Danielle (Scrunch) (18:07):
The Wild West <laugh>. Yeah. And I do see people get frustrated with some newer influencers kind of coming in, going, well, I don't have experience yet, so I'll work for free. And then that sort of perpetuating a little bit of brands, seeing what they can get for free. And so I actually love that, you know, you've come in with the approach of, Hey, I'm, I'm coming in here, I'm new, I'm learning, you know, would you be open to chatting to me about how things have worked for you? And, you know, your story's not unique in that I hear so many creators go, oh my God, absolutely. I doubt I wanna share, I wanna make sure everyone's successful and we're all playing at a level that we're comfortable with and is highly valued. So that is so awesome. I love that you said that. And I love that you said that about okay, new creators coming through, be curious, you know, always learning. So what would you say, do you think there's space for new creators? Do you think people can still get in on this action?
Jordan Hughes (19:05):
Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, I feel like especially with kind of this I feel like last few months to the last year, I guess you know, there's just been a lot of shifts in social media, especially with TikTok mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and Yes. You know, now Instagram trying to like, kind of figure out what they're doing. They're like doing more video, but we're also trying to prioritize creators, <laugh>, and, you know, everyone's upset, upset that they aren't focused on photo anymore, but now they're like, mm-hmm. Oh, but we still are focused on pH, you know, so it's just kinda like this weird time in social media, but mm-hmm. I feel like yeah, it's like, for a while I feel like I, I heard a lot of people saying like, oh, if, if you didn't you know, if you haven't started in you know, Instagram account with the intent of kind of growing it, if, if you haven't, you know, if you're just doing that in the last few years, like it's, it's too full, like mm-hmm. <Affirmative>
(20:02):
you had to start five or plus years ago to make it. But I'm like, there's literally, literally a friend of mine started her account in April, and it's like she blew past like 70,000 followers in a few months. Wow. Like is really doing well. And I'm honestly like, that's so cool like that. Totally. I think it's, it's definitely difficult. Like, I think where people are frustrated now is that, you know, that the things that have worked for a long time just don't work anymore. Yeah. You can't just have a feed full of pretty perfectly curated photos like that, that just isn't how things work. So people get upset that their engagement's gone or whatever, but it's like, no, it's just like, what, what people wanna see and what people engage with is, is different, has changed. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. For me personally, I'm like, I feel like all the changes have been really good because I'm like, it's kind of shaken things up and like all of these influencers who have been at the top of the game now are like, I kinda have to reassess what I've been doing and figure out how to compete with these kids who start an account, you know, four months ago and now killing it, you know?
(21:08):
So honestly, I'm like, I think it's, it's a great time to jump in as a creator. Like the, the creator economy isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It's only getting bigger. So yeah, I'd say getting definitely room. Totally. Yeah. And it's like every, every circle's different where for me it's like, I'm in this cocktail liquor world, which is a pretty big circle, but it's like, like I said, like it's big, but it's also not big especially compared to like the food photography, food blogger world, like I mentioned, like that's just massive and that that's a little harder to get in and get notice because there's so many people doing food focused content where the drink world, it's like, it's just not as saturated yet. But that's where it's like that's literally only two circles I mentioned, you know? Yeah. Food and drink. It's like, there are so many other niches and focuses and kind of, each one has its own way of doing things and kind of has its own potential sponsors and ways of monetizing. So I, I'm just like, it's a, it's a big world and there's, you know, Instagram isn't the only you know thing anymore, which I feel like is a good thing. So. Well, you
Danielle (Scrunch) (22:24):
Even mentioned your blog. How important has having your own website mean to you?
Jordan Hughes (22:30):
Yeah, I mean, website has been, it is been an interesting relationship because <laugh>, I <laugh>, I'm like, not someone who, like, as soon as you start talking about SEO stuff, I'm kinda like, oh, sh like, that's a whole, I'm way more like <laugh>, right? Yeah. I'm like, I want to be like in for me, like social media is so much more fun because it's like you're, you're actually in the, the imagery and the video and you're creating it and it's there's still, it has its own headaches, of course, that's what we all know, but that just kind of has taken more of my focus. But then there's of course the part where it's like, well, you don't own the platform, you don't own the followers. So, yeah. That's where, you know, part of having the blog and being able to build a mailing list has been really important.
(23:17):
Which has in turn been really key for this e-course I launched where like, so much of it is, I promote it on my social media, but a lot of it is, is email marketing. And that's kinda usually how I get a lot of people signing up is, is once I kind of get people to my website and in my email list, you know, there's kind of that whole funnel idea, so mm-hmm. <Affirmative> yeah, so it's definitely been a, a bit of a process where I feel like for a while I, I didn't use my website a ton other than just kind of posting recipe blogs, but at least always having an option to subscribe and to grab someone's email address. Even if I wasn't sending a ton of emails I feel like that in itself has been really valuable just to, you know, if I was to lose an account or Instagram was just to decide like, oh, nope, we aren't going to do alcohol focused content anymore, which is certainly a risk, you know, so, yeah. Yes. To where like, even if I was to lose an account, it would be devastating, but like, oh, I, I'd be okay. Like, I, I know how to reach my people, you know? Yeah. So,
Danielle (Scrunch) (24:23):
Yeah. I think that is so important. I was just literally listening to another podcast this morning and, you know, they were saying that 30% of their business comes from their email list. And it's so interesting because, you know, I think because we check Instagram so many times a day, we do kind of get a little bit obsessed and have this singular focus to, you know, yeah. Making sure that that's where we're focusing. So I love that, you know, the website, the email is a priority. And even, like you say, if it's not something that you maybe dedicate all your time to, but it's ticking along in the background, it's getting those email subscribers. So when you are ready, you've got them there and you can have that direct communication with your potential customers. I think that's important. Right.
Jordan Hughes (25:08):
Totally.
Danielle (Scrunch) (25:08):
So what would be to wrap, what would be the biggest lesson you have learned from being a creator to business owner over the last Yeah. Five or six years that you've been doing it?
Jordan Hughes (25:22):
Yeah. man, the biggest lesson is hard cuz I,
Danielle (Scrunch) (25:27):
I mean, there's probably a
Jordan Hughes (25:28):
Thousand lot of really good lessons, right? <Laugh>. Yeah, I know, right? Well, I mean, one, at least that comes to mind, just, it kind of flows with what we've been talking about. I feel like is just the importance of, of being able to, to, to diversify mm-hmm. <Affirmative> just in terms of, of, you know, like you said, like we, we tend to just have such a singular focus on Instagram or, or TikTok or whatever. But it, yeah, where I feel like for, for me, early on, and I think for a lot of creators, it's, it's almost like overwhelming to think like, okay, I put so much time and effort into this one platform, and to think like, oh, now I have to figure out a YouTube channel too, or or another platform, email marketing, like, what is that? You know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> where it can be like really overwhelming and I feel like there's you know, I guess a few lessons in there, but like, it it, to really make it as a creator long term, if you want that to be like, just like how you live and work.
(26:26):
It's like you, you have to work towards diversifying, but I think there's also like this, this level of like, you, you don't have to hurry, you know, the sooner, the better sort of thing. But Yeah. It's like, you know, like, especially with like TikTok blowing up, people are like, oh, Instagram's dead and TikTok is the thing. And I'm like, well, no. Like, you know, like TikTok is definitely like the, the BMF now, like Right. And Instagram's kind of like freaking out cause they're like, okay, we need to figure out how to like, keep up with this. We can't just cannibalize this like we did with Vine or, you know, Snapchat or whatever. But like, there's also, like, Instagram's also not dead. There's still so much value in that. And for me, with my, my focus primarily being on cocktails and spirits, my audience is older. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, most of them, Instagram is their platform still. They, like liquor brands aren't even legally allowed to to do sponsored posts on TikTok yet because of the audience being generally so young. Oh,
Danielle (Scrunch) (27:27):
Wow. Yeah.
Jordan Hughes (27:28):
Yeah. So it's like, some people still kind of get around it a little bit, but but that's where I'm like, there's, it is good to be like, you know, keep your eyes kind of ahead on the trends, but also like you know, things move fast, but they also don't <laugh> of just like, yeah. It could be as simple as like what we were talking about of like just having a website with an option to subscribe even if you aren't using it. Just having something that is kind of growing in the background or like I mentioned like a YouTube channel where like that can be a lot of work to do a YouTube channel really well. But like, say like, okay, I'm gonna do one video a month. Like, that's pretty easy. And just like, start promoting that to your Instagram audience if that's where most of your people are.
(28:16):
Just kind of slowly start giving people like, just little views into like, oh, they, they do this too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And like, I can find them over there and like, they aren't all gonna go over there, but if you get a few over there, great. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that's where it's like I feel like sometimes that fear of like, oh, I need to diversify and I need to do it today. It ends up stopping you from even trying. So yes, that's where I'm like, just like, yes, you need diversify, but also like trying to keep that in, in, in balance with like, you, you can go slow cuz honestly, like if you just start sharing all this stuff from another platform, people probably aren't gonna like that anyway, you know? So yeah. So like both diversifying but also just like try to the balance, take a little Yeah. The balance and like take a little pressure off yourself too, of like, yes, you don't have to build a whole new platform tomorrow. Just see if you can get, you know, a few people who follow you on your Instagram to follow you somewhere else. That's a huge win. You know just kind of, even just those little efforts can really have yeah. A lot of benefit later on. So. Yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (29:32):
Amazing. Well, Jordan, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with us and all of those insights. It's been an honor to have you on the Creator Economy Show. Appreciate your time.
Jordan Hughes (29:47):
Thank you. Yeah, it was an honor to be here. So fun.
