Wes Alan
Transcript
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:10):
Amazing. Alright. Wes from Tap edit. Go. Cheers to you. Cheers. Thank you for being on the Scrunch Creator Economy Show.
Wes Alan (00:19):
I'm very, very excited to be here. It's pretty awesome. I mean, yeah, we've been chatting before, but I'm very excited to get into more conversation.
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:27):
I'm just excited. You're the first guest I've had that has a gin and tonic, so I'm pretty excited about that. You've made my day already and we haven't even started talking <laugh>.
Wes Alan (00:36):
Well, during Covid I got through my, got through my Covid phase. So just cocktail making, that's literally everyone went like gym fanatics. I put on kilos cuz I just made too many cocktails every single night. Experimented. It's way too fun. But Jim and Tonic always goes down well for a podcast. So
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:52):
I feel like if you didn't put co wait on during Covid, you weren't doing it right. <Laugh>
Wes Alan (00:56):
You weren't doing Covid. Right. Yeah, that's good point.
Danielle (Scrunch) (00:59):
Well, why don't we start off with a bit of history. So let's so our audience, brands, agencies, marketers, creators, let's tell them how you got here. So what did you do leading up to starting Tap Edito?
Wes Alan (01:16):
Well well it's been a kind of a weird journey. It started very accidental but excellent. I'm, I've been a filmmaker pretty much my entire life. I've had odd jobs here and there when I was a young kid. But I started filmmaking when I was 16. Mm-Hmm. and I started making money from videos when I was 17 doing wedding videos, which I'll never do again cuz that was kinda explosion head.
Danielle (Scrunch) (01:39):
I know, know how you would deal with brides. Seriously
Wes Alan (01:43):
<Laugh>. This was also back in the days of DVDs where we had to like produce DVD after DVD after, because the package was like
Danielle (Scrunch) (01:50):
25
Wes Alan (01:51):
Dvds and during high school I wasn't studying cause I was just making DVDs the whole time. And my mom still to this day I rubbed this in her face. She said, you'll never make a career outta filmmaking. Stop and start studying. And I'm like,
Danielle (Scrunch) (02:04):
Fucking, I'll show you Mom <laugh>, I'll
Wes Alan (02:07):
Show you, I'll show you. Awesome. So yeah, my mom's amazing. Don't get me wrong, I'm just, anyway, <laugh>. But I basically went from there and I did everything in the film industry. I, I worked for nonprofits and did documentaries overseas. I worked as a music tour manager doing media on the side as well. Capturing videos for them. I worked in the TV industry and the film industry. I've done pretty much everything. But I realized I hated doing all the corporate stuff. I hated like the politics and the money side. So I started, when YouTube first started, we started kind of doing business videos. We started just realizing businesses having an opportunity to be digital online. We started making business documentaries, telling people stories cause that's what people wanted to hear back then. Mm. and now we've just kind of moved into a form and I still run production companies like Small Town Media is another company we have.
(03:02):
And we still make business videos, little visual of montages cuz people don't really care about the audio side these days. They just want a visual representation of a business. But taped Go started really weirdly, it actually started with a real estate agent that said he wanted to make heaps of social media videos. And he wanted me to pa he only had 600 bucks and our videos started two and a half grand and go up from there <laugh>. And we were like, yeah, we can't do six videos for 600 bucks. That's just not our price line. But I said, cuz smartphones were getting good. I think we were at iPhone six at this point when he asked me and I was like how did I teach you how to shoot videos on your own phone and we can even just put some music. I'll show you how to put music on.
(03:45):
And we did that. And then from there we got like 15 phone calls within two weeks at our production company. We were running then going, Hey, we saw what you did for Jared. Can you teach us how to do that? And we're like, okay. And I started a class and then basically we realized that more and more people were asking, Hey, we do love professional videos and we know that there's a space for professional videos mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. But we want to just make some short form content and we don't have the budget a hundred thousand dollars a year to get someone to put a video on social media for us once a week. And this is going back like five years ago and it's waiting, it's almost like a video, a date out now on social media. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But and I believe that's my dismay. <Laugh>
(04:29):
Yes, it's a whole space, but I feel like it's just, it's, it's evolved into something different. And like even on reels and tos these days, people, we've realized that people don't even like professional videos cuz they don't, they feel like a professional video sells them something. Yeah. Where organic videos don't like people making it on the smartphones. Vertical video really justifies. So everyone's got opinions about videos, but I just say ride the wave and figure out where everything's going. If people are watching it and they're liking it, it works. So we think smartphone videos are pretty amazing for what they do. I travel full-time for work. I don't have any house, I don't live anywhere. I travel overseas after Covid. I've been overseas twice since Covid, which has been awesome. That's amazing. Yes. Yes. As soon as soon as the border's opened up, I like, I'm out, I'm outta here, it's off.
(05:17):
I'm going. I didn't wanna do the two weeks quarantine coming back. That was the only problem. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I do travel videos on my smartphone. I never take my professional camera unless I'm doing street photography. Yeah. But I don't, if I'm not getting paid to make videos, I will make smartphone videos cuz I don't feel like I'm actually working. And that's why. Yeah. Awesome. So that's how that whole form started. And we basically did full day workshops and we would teach people in one day and it was mainly small businesses, how to make, shoot and edit on their phones. We made it very practical and we had like, they would have to walk away making their video their very first video on the day. Yep. We'd play a game, they'd all film the game and then they'd sit down for an hour and actually edit the video. So people realized sometimes you can't really make a video in an hour <laugh>, which freaked a
Danielle (Scrunch) (06:05):
Lot of people out <laugh>. But that
Wes Alan (06:06):
Was, was a, it was a crash
Danielle (Scrunch) (06:07):
Part of the experience.
Wes Alan (06:09):
Exactly. It was a crash course with a lot of information and showing you how to make those videos, which was cool.
Danielle (Scrunch) (06:14):
That's so cool. So is it still like full day workshops or is the format different?
Wes Alan (06:20):
During Covid we kind of did a standstill mainly because I'm a full extrovert <laugh>. I was doing heaps of online courses as everyone was that were doing workshops. We did heaps of online courses and everyone was paying for it. It was making good money. But I was getting severely kind of depressed. I'm Notre depressed person. When I was getting upset, when I was hanging up, zoom calls on a complete high from finishing a work workshop and I was sitting in a room by myself and I was just like, oh, this
Danielle (Scrunch) (06:46):
Sucks <laugh>.
Wes Alan (06:46):
It sucks. So we kinda stand still on it and we're evolving the business now. So we're still doing one day workshops and we are doing a run later this year. Probably started next year. Mm-Hmm. We still waited for the whole covid thing just to be over. Yeah. Completely over. And then started ramping up. But we're evolving our business into also online training for short form content. We realize that people can't do a full day online.
Danielle (Scrunch) (07:09):
Yeah.
Wes Alan (07:10):
They just want small lines and a lot of people want specific videos, how to make a specific reel, how to make this and can't take too much. But we've got things in the woodworks of little tiny tutorials on specific stuff after learning the basics of filmmaking. So yeah. We're still, we're still, we're still going and we're still around. But we did make a couple of other businesses during Covid just cuz I got bored, which is
Danielle (Scrunch) (07:32):
Another thing. Oh, sounds like the plight of every startup founder. <Laugh>. Yeah. Oh, I had a a day off. I might start a new business. <Laugh>,
Wes Alan (07:40):
You get bored and you wanna validate something, you've got this cool idea. And everyone has ideas in business and I love that people do, but an idea's an idea, it's worth nothing until you actually validate it. Yes. So I love validating businesses and making sure people are willing to spend pay for it. Yes. So that's kind of what I did during Covid and it's, some of those businesses have taken off and grown their own legs.
Danielle (Scrunch) (08:01):
Wow. That is awesome. Yeah. So, so tell me, you know, so obviously tap, edit, go. We're talking video here. Yeah. Why video? Like, you know, I was just got used to Instagram being pretty pictures and now I've gotta make videos. Why video <laugh>?
Wes Alan (08:16):
Well, it's, it's, yeah, totally. And it's, it's a great question because people don't understand this very well. I believe videos is just a different medium because
(08:28):
Ever since the dawn of existence it pretty much they can traces storytelling is always been the biggest form of connection in human culture. That's it. Yeah. Storytelling. But it's, it's a different way to do it. And it's evolved over time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> so huge things to connect with people with sitting around a campfire and telling dream time stories and all that kind of stuff. And then it evolved into music when people started telling cultural stories through music and paintings and artworks. And then, then photography came out in what, the twenties or something like that. Black and white photography. And I was just showing what people looked like. And then storytelling became in feature. Films was huge, but they didn't have any Audi. All this stuff just slowly evolved. And in the last, since smartphone, since everything's come up, like when I started making filmmaking, it was still DVDs. I was showing everyone DVDs going to their house. People were still sitting around the couch communicating as a family, watching group stuff kind of stuff. And like people can bitch in my, I love watching Gogglebox cuz it's still that old form of how people,
Danielle (Scrunch) (09:30):
I have never watched it
Wes Alan (09:31):
<Laugh>. It's, it's literally just how I remember watching TV as kids is all the family members would sit around and get forced to watch something. Yeah. And you just comment on it the entire time. Commentate on it. Yeah. <laugh>, you've never even watched the show dog silent through it. You just like watch a moment the whole time. Nice. And me and my family still try to do that occasionally. Just put on something that's crap and we just talk through that entire thing. Amazing. But that's another form of communi like storytelling cuz we'd making our own stories about something else. It's the same thing as support. People like getting involved in the story and the players, everything like that. But there was a huge shift when social media came out that photography was the easiest form of social media. Mm. storytelling then when one, because photos were easy to capture, data was a lot slower back then.
(10:18):
So it was easy to put that up. Putting videos up internet couldn't even handle it. There wasn't even a platform for it. You had to, I remember when Facebook didn't even have a video platform. They had to link YouTube. That's that's right. We want to do our own one. And they disagree. They're like, no, you can't put YouTube but we won't show it anywhere. And that's cuz they wanted to use their own form of video cuz it evolved. And video has now evolved to being the general consensus of we want that information, we want that content. But I still believe there's this odd balance at the moment because the energy to put, to make a video Yeah. It's like hard compared to making a photo. So, and you could go and take a hundred photos in a day, which would be almost a year's worth of content.
(11:05):
Yeah. If you post once a day, 30 videos sorry, it's three months not a year's worth. If you put 30 photos up a month, then you've got three months worth of content showing one day. But yeah, it takes probably a quarter of a day to half a day to make a good video. Mm-Hmm. And that's once, so pretty much you're trying to just chase your tail of making videos. People that know how to make videos can make 'em quite quickly. But business owners, marketing agencies, sometimes they don't have that skillset cause they haven't been trained in it. Mm-Hmm. And it freaks them out going, well I'm wasting all this time. I can probably put up one video a week cuz that's all the time I have. Yeah. With all my other jobs. So it's going to evolve and video's becoming a high demand. But I think it's also the same way. I, I liked photos a lot more because you could, could instantly see it and move on quite quickly and you get the entire story with videos now with you not engaging someone in three seconds. You Yeah. Your video might be missed and all that effort's just gone out the window. So it's hard to get that engagement.
Danielle (Scrunch) (12:07):
Well even like, you know, if people are in a public place, are they even playing the video with sound? So, you know, if you're kind of mixing between video or image, you're like, eh, I can't watch it anyway.
Wes Alan (12:18):
And that's the hardest thing cuz you basically gotta figure out how are people gonna watch this and how can I hold them because mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, we used to, and that's how I made my money as a filmmaker because I used to sit down with heaps of people. Heaps of businesses would come to me going, I wanna make this video. And I'd go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Danielle (Scrunch) (12:34):
<Laugh>. That's,
Wes Alan (12:35):
I, as soon as I hear I
Danielle (Scrunch) (12:36):
Back down <laugh>,
Wes Alan (12:38):
I'm like, this is not the video you need because mm-hmm. We had these five questions and I can run it through these really quickly if need be. But we had five questions that pretty much made my film career in running my own production company. It was like, first the biggest question, which is always the foundation of every video is who's watching your video? Because, and I used to try to make it into one person. A lot of businesses know the customer avatar. Mm. And some of my most hated things hated things on social media is when people say, Hey Facebook, hey Facebook world. Cause you're kinda neglecting everybody. Like, I'm just like, who the is all
Danielle (Scrunch) (13:13):
This? Hi internet <laugh>.
Wes Alan (13:15):
I'm sitting on the toilet by myself watching a video. Who else am I watching this video with? Yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (13:19):
<Laugh>.
Wes Alan (13:20):
And I actually learnt it from radio presenters as well. Cause radio presenters never say, Hey everyone, I have a new song for you all. They say, Hey, I have a new song for you. And that makes you go, even though they're talking to the masses, they're addressing one person. Wow. And that's,
Danielle (Scrunch) (13:35):
And it makes, I've never thought of that before. That's so cool.
Wes Alan (13:38):
And literally if people do that with their videos, you feel more connected. Yeah. And you feel more intrigued that they're talking to me. And like heaps of those fake magicians that do it on, like they're, they're always trying to make you feel like you are, they're doing a trick on you, but it's all mathematics stuff. Yeah. But it makes you feel way more engaged. And he's like, he can't be talking to me. He can't be doing magic on me cuz he doesn't know me and he's not even there. So that's the whole magic behind it. But if you can say Yeah. Address an individual while talking to the masses. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> really hits home for most videos. If you can do it. It's, it, it takes a little bit of training to do. Yeah. But it's, it's one. So who's your audience is my, usually my first one.
(14:17):
Yep. sorry, I'm trying to remember. I haven't done this for a while now. What are you gonna make is the big thing. Oh, sorry. No, who, why? Why isn't it, why are you making a video? So what's your purpose? Because if you don't have a reason to make it you, it's gonna flop on its ass if you don't have a sales pitch at the end or a call to action or anything that, like if your purpose is just to entertain someone mm-hmm. <Affirmative> great. Entertain someone do. If that's all it is. If it is to make someone laugh, that's a purpose. If it is to make a sale, if you're trying to get people through your door, whatever it is. If you're trying to be an influencer, get people to buy something so you can make money off the other company.
(14:58):
Yeah. You've gotta have a direct way. And there is sneaky ways to sell without selling. That's a whole nother thing. The third question is what, what are you gonna make? So who are you, who are you addressing? Why are you making a video? What are you gonna make? So what type of video? Cause there's so many different types of videos. Yeah. So with those two foundations, what would be the best? The next two are really interesting and they can kind of flip on their heads differently. But how are you gonna make money from this is usually cause we teach businesses, so how is this gonna help you? Mm-Hmm. and usually how to make money. And we have a whole sales pitch of how you can make money through video. We could be here for hours. If I try to do that <laugh>, that's a whole nother thing.
(15:40):
And the final thing is where are you gonna put it? And the work can actually change a lot of the first four questions. Mm. Cause it changes the format and if you need to make more than one. Cause if you're gonna do it on YouTube, it needs to be a ver a horizontal video. Yeah. If you're gonna be on Instagram, it needs to be a vertical reel. All this kind of stuff. So yeah, they change all the time. But if you don't address those five questions Mm. Really your video's just gonna flop. So we just tell all our audiences to think about who your audience is. Why are you making a video? What are you gonna make? How's it gonna benefit you? And where's it gonna go? And if you think about those questions straight away, usually do quite well.
Danielle (Scrunch) (16:15):
Yeah. Well I love that so much because I'm pretty sure the thought process that goes into most people's minds is, Ugh, I've gotta post a reel every day or I'm not gonna get anywhere <laugh>. Exactly. I'm pretty sure that's the, that's the non-question that everyone asks themselves.
Wes Alan (16:30):
I've got people that don't even post on social media. So this is going back to, and I know we're backtracking here, but going back to the real estate agent, I convinced him not to make Facebook videos. Nice. And cuz he was like, I just wanna be on Facebook. And I literally went to the first question. I was like, who's your audience? He's like, you know everybody. And I was like, no, no. First of all, cut that shit out. That's, let's,
Danielle (Scrunch) (16:53):
If anybody has answered that, you are wrong. <Laugh>, you
Wes Alan (16:56):
Are wrong. To be honest, my, I've got a, I've got a fake person in my head that I sell to cuz it's my target audience. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and then like 35 to 45 year old women. So there's like, I've got a 37 year old woman that has started her first business. Her name's Sarah. That is my target audience. And there
Danielle (Scrunch) (17:13):
Are sounds of awesome
Wes Alan (17:14):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Sarah's awesome. And she's just got two kids that have just gone off to high school and they're doing their own things so she doesn't have to worry about them anymore. And she started her first business. She's like, yeah, I've got time. But she didn't know how to do social media. So this is someone I've made up in my head. But every time I talk and when I was saying address one person, yeah. I'm always thinking of Sarah when I talk to the camera, even though that I never say her name or her gender or what she does. Mm-Hmm. I'm talking to her. That's the person in my head. And I've made a fake image of this person. She's quite attractive. But that's,
Danielle (Scrunch) (17:43):
It's shocking. I'm
Wes Alan (17:46):
Imaginary. That's what but yeah. And that worked well for the real estate
Danielle (Scrunch) (17:52):
Agent. I just decided that Chris Hemsworth is my oldest <laugh>. Sorry. I know Chris. I know Chris.
Wes Alan (17:57):
To be honest, I've done that with somebody else and they thought of Ryan Gosling and it made them stutter through their entire video.
(18:09):
But with a real estate agent, we realized that his target audience was people buying and selling houses, which happens once or twice in somebody's lifetime. Very rarely that happens. Yeah. So he's like, if I address it all Facebook, I'll find those people. I was like, no, no, no. I was like, where is your key audience? And we're like, where, where do we find those people? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we realize that people buying and selling houses really going off the people that are buying houses. Cuz once he off the commission, he's just trying to sell it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and the people that are going to open houses, those people are usually finding those open houses and walking through because that buyer has to be looking in that specific area in that specific town anyway. Yes. He's not gonna find that on Facebook. So we basically decided he need to make, he wanted his whole reason, the why.
(18:56):
Mm. Was he wanted to personally connect with buyers. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So he looked a little bit more professional. He didn't want to look like a just a sleazy salesman. He wanted to have a personal connection. Yeah. So what we decided to do, and the what video came after that and decided the how and where, but this kind of all formed into one was that we told him after every open house he wasn't allowed to run off to another open house. He wasn't allowed to just piss off and just go to the next one and try to sell the next one at open house. We told him What do the buyers usually give you at the open house Every single day they give their name. Yep. Their email and their phone number. Yep. We just told him he needed to send a video to every single text number. So he would record a video of him walking through the house saying, ah, hi Sam and Steve, my name's Jared. I've, I just met you at the front door of the house. Sorry I couldn't walk through. Been amazing just meeting you. If you have any personal questions, I'm here to answer any questions. I'm happy to give you a personalized walkthrough. Thanks so much. He usually have a script.
Danielle (Scrunch) (20:00):
This is incredible. I love this. Yeah. And
Wes Alan (20:02):
He was struggling to sell six houses at the point where we helped him and he sold all six within three months. Just in that personal connection. Now I believe that was because of me, but there might bit more. The factors obviously might, might have changed
Danielle (Scrunch) (20:16):
But No, but it's so cool and I love like I guess there's different levels here, right? So when we first started the conversation, I was just thinking about video for social. Like, cuz I guess that's kind of where I play. But I'm just thinking as a business owner, if you are sending personalized videos to your customers or potential customers, that's huge. Like it's obviously an investment in your time, but the payoff could be very interesting.
Wes Alan (20:44):
But you can automate a lot of that stuff. Now there's a company called Bonura that I work with a lot. They're actually in Brisbane as well. So they're awesome. Cool. but they're worldwide now. But they do personalized email videos that you get a trigger. So if someone buys from your website it can come to you and saying, or they've subscribed to your course or they've done something, you can say, oh thank, oh hey it comes up with their name. Hey Simon, thanks so much for purchasing my course. Really appreciate it. Oh that's cool. Saying Hey Simon to somebody on their video. Yeah. They're like Oh my god, this guy wrote And I was doing it to every ticket holder that purchased a ticket to my workshops and I would get every single time I was at the workshop everyone's like, you didn't need to send me a video, but that was so nice of you. And I was like, yeah, no, I wanted to send, I wanted to connect with you. That was me. 10 seconds it took
Danielle (Scrunch) (21:33):
Me. I am literally stealing this idea. It is so
Wes Alan (21:36):
Yeah. So good. They're great. No, it's really good. And they're awesome. But it's just making that personal connection cuz people feel like they can reach out to you. And a lot of CEOs and a lot of business owners don't do that. Yes. And I understand time is a huge factor. Yeah. But having a connection at the start and then even passing it onto a staff member Yeah. Still feels like they're able to be part of the bigger part picture of the company. Yeah. And I know we're thinking business here, but influencers, all that kind of stuff, they, and I'm not saying anything bad cuz they do such an amazing job, but they are trying to influence so many people without making a personal connection. Mm. And personal connection is the only way to sell. You don't pitch to a thousand people hoping to get that 10%. It does work. But you realize that 90% of going, eh, yeah. Don't really like that guy. I didn't like their sales pitch. Yeah. If you find the audience that are willing to pay that 10%, if you know that 10% and you make a personal connection with them, that's a hundred percent sales. Instead of trying to reach out to a thousand people, it's different ways to make money.
Danielle (Scrunch) (22:39):
Totally. And that's really interesting because a lot of influencers slash creators do kind of get hung up on the fact that they need millions of followers to make an impact. Yeah. And and in the old model where influencers just made money out of sponsored posts, obviously yes. The more followers they have, the more they can charge. But a lot of of them are getting tired of just going on that hamster wheel of chasing sponsored posts. So they are looking at how do I create a business and monetize my influence that way. And I, so I love this idea that they need to get their heads around serving a small, small targeted group of people in a really highly personalized way.
Wes Alan (23:19):
Well it you a hundred, you're right on the money there. But it is also this whole thing of understanding what you're selling and the value of what you're selling to people, which people just don't understand. And it's one of the hardest things for a lot of business owners to get over. Mm-Hmm. Is just going the GTO's starting to make me burp as well.
Danielle (Scrunch) (23:36):
That's fine. That's fine. We're all with my friends now. It's all good. <Laugh>.
Wes Alan (23:40):
I've been spell it very hard. But but people just get uncomfortable about actually going my value, my worth and who's willing to buy for it, pay for it. But that's, that's all the validation stuff that I was saying at the start that I love doing is figuring out if people are willing to pay for it. And people get really nervous about getting rejected and being said no to mm-hmm <affirmative> and I usually just, and this is usually the way that we do the sales pitching is basically you can get 20 nos. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> the one Yes. That you get is huge. I say it's the same thing as my dating life. If I get one Yes. I'm very excited. <Laugh>, I usually have to present it to a lot of people. Nah, nah. No, I'm good. Which is funny
Danielle (Scrunch) (24:20):
But it's such a good point. Cause so I too so my other business spark, we do sales training for female founders and that's one thing we teach is so if you think about it, if you have a conversion rate of 10%, then 90% of the time people are saying no <laugh>. Exactly. You've gotta get used to it. It doesn't mean anything. Like you can and you can always improve it and you can always optimize and get better and better. But there will always be people that say no,
Wes Alan (24:47):
But people, people have a fear of rejection, which I'm completely understand being rejected. But it is not a bad thing. And this is the way door-to-door salesman did so well because those guys just were happy to go boom, boom. No, not interested. Okay, that's fine. Sorry to bother you and walk away. And that's, yeah. You just have to be like, okay, that's fine. They might have been in the middle of a TV show, you dunno what was going on in their lives to say no if they're just probably not interested in buying. They probably just bought a crappier product from someone that's almost identical and they can't spend that money. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. You the people that would say yes. And if you get a hundred percent nos then you know it's not a business. You know, you can't make money. Cuz I've had six failed businesses in the past because I didn't do that validation stage.
(25:30):
I didn't do that. I was like, oh this is an amazing idea. <Laugh> people would pay for this. This is awesome. One was capturing grandparents' stories. So like filming old people, making a documentary about them so that they would last forever. You could show their grandkids. But we found out that a lot of people weren't willing to spend, cuz our videos were two and a half grand at that point. People weren't willing to spend two and a half grand on somebody that they were taking care of anyway. And they were trying to save up for their holiday and they were like, oh, we could do it a year down the track when they're a little bit older. It's okay, we've got expenses and bills to pay. We didn't do that validation stage. We just made the business and thinking it was gonna work. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and it didn't. So
Danielle (Scrunch) (26:09):
It is so important. I, I could not agree with you more in terms of validation. The biggest thing I, because I've done the same thing. I've made products, I've spent thousands of dollars on developing staff only for no one to want it. And so I finally realized <laugh> that I had to sell it first. I was like, make someone gimme money and then I'll go scramble and build it.
Wes Alan (26:31):
It's, it's why you build prototypes. It's why you test the money. Yeah. And all that stuff. And to be honest, if you want to kind of relay this into the people listening to this as well mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, same thing as all your videos. You've gotta put crap videos out there. Yes. That people are gonna say, that was crap, but don't feel bad that it was a bad video. Just be like, oh, that one didn't work. We've gotta figure out what else to make. And that's the validation stage of figuring out the formula for you, for your brand, for your clients, brands, all that kind of stuff.
Danielle (Scrunch) (27:00):
That is so good. So then tell me if I'm the type of person that hates, as you can tell, I hate being on screen. <Laugh> <laugh>, but a lot of people don't love it. Yeah. So tell me, how do I get over that if I'm not putting out videos? Cause I don't wanna be in them on them. What do I do?
Wes Alan (27:16):
That's a huge thing. Well to be honest, I'm one of those people, I hate it. I
Danielle (Scrunch) (27:21):
Do not believe you.
Wes Alan (27:22):
You okay. So the first thing I wanted to do when I was a kid was be an actor. I was like, cuz I just wanted to be in the movie business. I was like, oh cool movies. This is so cool. I loved like Lion Kid was my favorite thing, which I actually didn't think was a cartoon when I was a kid. I thought that was real life. That was my weird lion's talk. I understand this. But I hated, like as soon as all of a sudden I hate public speaking. I hated being, I still do do hate it to be honest. I had a little tiny fear about it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> when I first started tap at it Go, when I was thinking about starting it as a brand, I had been behind the camera my entire career. I like never was in the front of it.
(28:02):
I was always behind it. I always hired actors, I always had presenters, hosts, all that kind of stuff that were way better at it than me. And I was talking about the brand. I was talking about starting it and then I was like literally talking to a business. My business coach still one of my closest friends. I was like, ah, yeah, I'll just do voiceovers and I'll do hand stuff just so I don't have to be on camera. I just don't like presenting that way. And he's like, he literally just sat me down. I wanna swear. I apologize to the audience. Bring it on. He's fucking kidding me, man. He's just like, get on camera. You're way too good. You're way too confident. Just be on camera. It doesn't matter. Like people wanna see you, you are the expert you need to be in front of camera.
(28:42):
But I realized, and on all this training that I had, I realized that there was a huge fear that every single person has a fear of being on camera. There's, unless you grow up with it, unless you have the comfortability of around it, people don't understand. And I actually worked out that there's a very particular reason why as our reiteration that wasn't in front of cameras hate, hated being on cameras as as adults. And the main reason is, is because of a mirror. So having a mirror in front of you mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, literally you've never seen yourself with your own two eyes. Yes. You've only seen reflections or recordings of yourself. You can't Yep. Take your eyeballs out and look at yourself. So most of the way that we see ourselves is a reflection. A mirrored version. Yeah. But the weird thing is if you actually have a mole on the right hand side of your face, when you are looking at it, it's on the left hand side, it's a mirrored version, it's an opposite. Wow. So you're watching that and you're going, oh sweet. Great. And this is how my work. Very few people, like very, very, very few people are completely symmetrical. It's a super normal thing to be completely symmetrical. Most almost everybody has a very odd adjustment on their facts. Yes. So when you see a recording of yourself, it's the opposite of what you've normally seen. The real version, the mirrored, mirrored version. Wow. And your brain just goes into this malfunction of going, that's
Danielle (Scrunch) (30:02):
That's not me. I don't look like nuts <laugh>,
Wes Alan (30:04):
But I don't look like that. That's, that's not right. I don't like that
Danielle (Scrunch) (30:09):
<Laugh>.
Wes Alan (30:09):
It's, it's the same as your voice. Everybody has this when they hear a playback of their voice,
Danielle (Scrunch) (30:14):
Oh my God, I hate the sound of my voice recorded. I'm so nasal
Wes Alan (30:19):
The reason for that. There is a specific reason for that. So every single person is hearing two bits of audio. They're hearing their voice being projected, rebounding and coming back into their ears. But then they're hearing the vibration of their chest. So if you block your ears, you can still hear your chest. That is one channel. Wow. Audio coming in. Yeah. So your whole body's for your entire life. You're hearing two bits of audio and going, that's the way I sound. Yeah. In my head that's exactly the way I sound. And when I heard my voice first time on radio, I sounded exactly like my little brother who I love to death, but I also think he's a wanker. And I was like, oh my God, I sound like I laugh. Exactly like him. We sound like if you heard us on the phone, you wouldn't know who's who. And I was like, oh my God, I sound exactly like him. This. And I just went into freak mode. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But then I realized that is who I sound like. And I, I say this to everybody in my workshop. Who here likes going having drinks with their friend, just one-on-one with a friend, having a beer, having a coffee, whatever it is. How good is that? And everyone said Love it. Love it. And I go, do you know that they can see you
(31:23):
<laugh>? Do you know that they can hear your voice? That's how you look and sound to the rest of the world. Wow. Only you are about that opposite version. That doesn't feel comfortable. Trust me. Everybody knows how you sound and look and they're okay with it. Unless everyone's pointing and laughing at you every single day, it's fine. Wow. Camera, it's very easy. But like in saying that, everyone has that light bulb moment going, oh yeah, I totally get it. Yes. But people are still uncomfortable and they look uncomfortable on camera. Yeah. Which is completely fine. And we have tips and tricks and if we have time, I could probably give you a few, but we realized that people being on camera, the reason that the younger generation are so good at being on camera Yeah. Is cuz they have been in front of camera the entire time. Yeah. And what we say to people, it's the same thing as driving. We all remember driving for the first time and how much we were all crap in our pants. Yes. Getting that car, getting on the road or a highlight, getting
Danielle (Scrunch) (32:20):
On the freeway, oh my God, look at our
Wes Alan (32:24):
<Laugh> driving the car off to the road. Kill somebody. I'm going 80 kilometers an hour kinda thing. <Laugh>. but now after a period of time, I'm literally sitting in the highway just going, oh, kind of. I'm
Danielle (Scrunch) (32:38):
Like, I don't even remember how I, I got home. Like <laugh> just autopilot.
Wes Alan (32:41):
Exactly. You go from one stage to the other going, how the hell did I get here? I don't even remember. You're talking on the phone with people and headsets, you're listening music, you're listening to a podcast. It's like this podcast maybe. Absolutely. I'm guessing heaps of information, but you're on autopilot. The actual action of doing it. Yeah. Is that so much? It's fine. So we say to people, being on camera, you just have to start doing, it's like this first time, start driving. It's gonna feel very uncomfortable at the start. It's gonna feel very awkward. You're gonna make mistakes. You might crash into a wall. It's completely fine if you do that, just shake it off. You can buy another car. It's okay.
Danielle (Scrunch) (33:19):
<Laugh>. Okay. We're not condoning
Wes Alan (33:21):
That <laugh> you cannot, unless
Danielle (Scrunch) (33:23):
You can delete the video and record it again.
Wes Alan (33:26):
<Laugh>. <laugh>. Exactly. It's, you've got way more flexibility and like, to be honest, you can rewatch it and you can see if you looked bad or whatever you'd want. Totally. We just tell people like, it's okay if you're not an amazing driver. You just have to drive from A to B. Yes. You have to get there or you're going back to the start.
Danielle (Scrunch) (33:43):
And it's, well, and also I think your perception of what's good and what everybody else's perception of what's good is completely different as well. Like, you know, you could sit there and perfect and perfect and perfect and the video totally flop. But you know, you rock up in no makeup, just say whatever you're saying and post it and then it just goes crazy and everyone loves it cuz you've just been real.
Wes Alan (34:06):
And look, this is the thing. There's, I, I've told so many people, as much as people say there's a formula for every we, we've got the formula for video, I'm like, you might have it for now, but again, it's gonna change, it's gonna evolve. No one's knowing what's gonna happen and how it's gonna gonna work. And it's just about being confident and looking confident on camera. And we say fake it till you make it with being on camera. Just like one of the biggest things. So like, we have like 15 tips about being on camera. I can't go through all of them, but I, I've got some of the few ones. One of my favorite ones is, and this is the some, something that I learned as a public speaker as well, is people have a fear of making mistakes. Mm-Hmm. They have such a big fear. If they stumble and they make a set mistake, everything's gone and we've all seen it and someone talking on stage their start of their speech is amazing cuz they've rehearsed it a thousand times. That first part, not rehearse the end of it cuz they're like, they got through the entire speech once and they're like, oh sweet. But they got through one part of the speech and soon as they make a mistake, they start to start declining and you can see 'em start freaking out and they start getting worse and worse. Like
Danielle (Scrunch) (35:16):
The deer in the headlights. Like, oh exactly. Oh god.
Wes Alan (35:19):
And the reason for that is everyone sits there and they're listening, they're sitting on the podium, they make a mistake. They're like, I have five, I mean I have six great tips for you. And they stumble and they correct themselves. But what's going in their brain and the audio that's going in their head is going, ha you stuffed
Danielle (Scrunch) (35:37):
Up new idiot <laugh>
Wes Alan (35:38):
New idiot. Oh, everyone's looking at, you know, you're stuffed up. 20 bucks says you're gonna stuff, whoa, look at you. You're just stuffed up again. Idiot <laugh>. And they just keep going on a tr direction of really bad. And when I, cuz I had a, a acting coach that's a really close friend, I used to live with them. They, they gave me these tips and they said, look, if you stuff up, point it out. Like make sure everyone knows that it's okay and move on. So the very first time I ever did a workshop, I had tips for being on camera and I said, tips, t i t s instead. Stop it. Stop it. My mum was in the audience as well at that time and I was like, ah, tits for being on the audience. And I was just like, oh my god. I said this and only five people in the corner very close to me heard it. And they kind of giggled and everyone else in the audience just went, did he just, I'm not sure if he did <laugh>.
Wes Alan (36:33):
So I literally just went and I stopped my talk and I just went, sorry guys. I just said tits instead of tips. Everyone laughed and we moved on and that was it. Yeah. So that mistake was done and dusted. It's now in the past, let's keep going. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I've taken that through everything that I do. I've sworn on stage, accidentally pointed it out, everyone's giggled. And when I'm the most nervous, I make a lot of mistakes. But I just pointed out and I'm like, I've, I've shaped like been shaking on stage and I look, I show everyone, I'm like, look, I'm shaking. I'm so nervous. And everyone laughs and giggles and we move on. Yes. It's just, you have to be confident to make mistakes, especially in live videos, all that kind of stuff. It's fine.
Danielle (Scrunch) (37:11):
The the biggest thing that I find is that the people in the audience, so whether it's live or whether it's on video, is it's the people in the audience are actually in awe of the fact that you have got the guts to stand up there. So they overlook all that stuff. So the shaking, the mistakes, the whatever the whatever they're like, they just are like, you could have made like a thousand mistakes and they just afterwards they're like, oh my God, you were so good. How did you get out there? How did you do that? Because they're going, I couldn't do it. <Laugh>. So Exactly. They think that you're amazing.
Wes Alan (37:45):
I believe everyone can. It's just they
Danielle (Scrunch) (37:47):
Can, it's literally first
Wes Alan (37:48):
Fear. Everyone just has that fear. And it's the fear about making videos. It's a fear of everything, which is completely fine. If you're gonna let that fear, you don't want to do it. You want to pay somebody else to do it. And this is probably one of the biggest things for your influencers. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. We had a client of ours he didn't wanna make videos, he was like, no, no. He sent a 20. Oh no, she was, she was, she's now 20, but she was 16 when she came and did our workshop. Yeah. She's like, my boss just forced me to come do this workshop. She's like, I'm pretty good at videos so I can, I was like, I literally sat her down and I was like, can you please make sure that you are on every single video and within a year can you make, can you make a video a year, every single week and within a year can you just call me? I gave her my personal number. Yep. And I was just like, call me. And she was 17, she called me and she's like, oh our, our audience has reached this. And she was bragging about it. I'm like, cool, can you go to your boss now and ask for a crap load more money? And she was like, what? And I was like, go ask for a 200% raise. Yep. Double your money. And if he says no, walk out the door. Absolut.
Danielle (Scrunch) (38:51):
Absolutely. You like that girl has just given him all of that ip, done all of that work. Yeah. Holy crap.
Wes Alan (38:58):
Well it wasn't even that because they, they were wanting that every single time and he thought that he could pay a 16 year old the same wage Yeah. For being on camera and he didn't want to be on camera, which is completely fine. Hmm. But now he has to pay a talent fee to her. Yeah. Which, oh, this is what I'm saying. I'm like, you are now the talent. You now have a respect by the audience that you are gonna be on camera. If he loses that he's gonna lose sales. So he's gonna absolutely pay money to keep you. And matter of fact, she got paid doubles straight away when she was 17. Oh my
Danielle (Scrunch) (39:27):
God. Her age. That is incredible.
Wes Alan (39:29):
I think she was getting paid $46 an hour at the end of it, like at a 17 year old. So she was very happy.
Danielle (Scrunch) (39:36):
Oh my God. That is so good. Alright, well let's, we're coming to time now. Mm-Hmm. So I guess what have I got left for you <laugh>? So talk about showing up on camera, but I mean, what if, if we're still, you know, we know the power of video, we know we've gotta do it. We know that we've gotta get over our fear. Are there any tips just to make it that next level easy to get some videos out asap p Well,
Wes Alan (40:02):
Look, it's yes and no. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there's, there's so many different levels because again, we're going back to those things of what type of videos are you gonna make? Because if you want professional video, but I always just tell people it's not about the type of video you make, it's about how it's actually gonna benefit you. Yes. Because you need to actually spend the time figuring it out, sitting down if it's gonna make you money. Because video takes a crap load of time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and everyone's sitting there going, oh I need to make videos. Because we've been told, we've been told
Danielle (Scrunch) (40:31):
The algorithm, the algorithm, that's the reason
Wes Alan (40:34):
Algorithm tells us to make videos. We need to do this. We need, I'm like, you don't need to do anything. Time is your money and your effort. If you could make, I said every business, sorry, if money was flowing in and you had to do zero, like you could just sit on the couch. Would you prefer to do that? And they're like, yes. I'm like, well well let's figure out where the money's coming from first because then you don't waste your time and your money. So there's heaps of things that you can do until you test it as well. So we do tell people to make videos. Get yourself out there, figure it out. Yeah. If you'd like. And there's different things to try, but we don't know if it's actually gonna make you money. Because if you're selling something that doesn't really sell well from your audience on social media, then you're wasting your time. Yeah. All I would say if you social media following is all your current purchases. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we, we've currently got a winery. Then what they do is they just drink wine and tell, talk to their current clients about how good this wine is with this meal. And the people go and make that meal. That's their entire, I
Danielle (Scrunch) (41:35):
Want
Wes Alan (41:36):
That job. Social media or audience. They're not, I wanna get
Danielle (Scrunch) (41:38):
That job.
Wes Alan (41:39):
<Laugh> buy this wine and this wine's the best and it, it pallets like this and it p all the people that are following on social media know that. Mm. And they literally go, let's just sit down and drink wine together. And they just do live videos. They just sit there, drink wine and eat and they answer questions and that's it. And they do really well with just, oh
Danielle (Scrunch) (41:57):
My god,
Wes Alan (41:58):
They sell bottles
Danielle (Scrunch) (41:59):
That's quite
Wes Alan (41:59):
Cool. At $140 a bottle. So they're a very small boutique winery. It's not trying to sell to the masses. Yeah. They know who their audience are and they make these live videos. Yes. To really engage.
Danielle (Scrunch) (42:11):
That is so cool. I love that so much. I think that that I wanna change my career and do that for a living.
Wes Alan (42:17):
<Laugh> <laugh>. It's a good trip. Inclined to have. Cause they send us free bottles. I literally got a
Danielle (Scrunch) (42:21):
Sugar. Oh my God. That's the dream
Wes Alan (42:24):
<Laugh>. And when you take photos for them and do stuff and they're like, here's some bottles. Go take some. I'm like great. And I just sip away. I send 'em a photo of me drinking out of their actual bottle. Are they kind Got upset at me once. Cause I thought it was a hilarious photo for
Danielle (Scrunch) (42:36):
Something
Wes Alan (42:37):
<Laugh>. They did not think it was funny. Oh.
Danielle (Scrunch) (42:39):
Anyway, my god, I love it so much. And that's, look, that's awesome. And I think, you know, I think the biggest thing for me, so I've been taking notes furiously, is you know, really coming back to the why you are creating video in the first place. Where it's gonna live, whether it's actually gonna make any money. Like really analyzing it first and putting some thought into it. Not just appeasing the algorithm guards <laugh>. I think that that's super cool.
Wes Alan (43:06):
Well, yeah. And it's a big thing. It's like maybe if we, we have time in the near future we'll do another one, another podcast on how to make money from videos. Cuz we have a whole thing about that because it's, it's, once you understand that and understand your pattern, it's, it's way more confident and you realize spending the time and effort of making videos. Yeah. If you know that there's gonna be dollars at the end of it, you are like, sweet, I'm happy. Worth it. Spend time and effort doing this. If I know that it's gonna make me money, it's totally worth it. So yeah.
Danielle (Scrunch) (43:34):
I love it. Well Wes, thank you. Cheers to you for coming on the Creator Economy Show. It's been an absolute pleasure and so much fun and I appreciate your time.
Wes Alan (43:45):
It's good. I have a little buzz going on now. I'm gonna make myself another drink. <Laugh>. Perfect.
Danielle (Scrunch) (43:51):
I love it.
Wes Alan (43:51):
Thanks so much.
